Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
TheCanadian
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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby TheCanadian » Mon Dec 26, 2011 8:59 am

Columbo wrote:The children are Canadian citizens and have every right to be here. Only the foreign nationals are being deported, and they decided to take their children home to Portugal while they ostensibly form social and economic ties to Portugal before applying for an Authorization to Return to Canada. As evidenced by various comments, overstays seem to ignite tempers worse than genocide in some peoples' minds. I would challenge people to channel that fervour towards more heinous immigration crimes, such as human trafficking, war criminals seeking refuge, and existing permanent residents that have been convicted of serious crimes involving violence, weapons, and sexual offences. Why some people have such a disdain for refugees and overstays boggles my mind in the grand scheme of prioritizing our enforcement resources and protecting Canadians.


I don't think anyone said overstays are worse than genocides. Plus its not everyday that genocide is happening in Canada, unless you are to believe certain Native leaders..

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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby SierraSeven » Mon Dec 26, 2011 9:42 am

If you read what he wrote, he's talking about how some people go off the deep end about overstays as if they were genocide, and not that they are actually worse than genocide.

If I had enough ambition right now I'd post that dead horse beating icon.
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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby 48highlander » Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:28 pm

As the son of immigrant parents, I get pissed at any instance of immigants legal/illegal giving the finger to this country, no matter what their transgression is. They are spitting in my parents and grandparents face, and the faces of all immigrants who successfully migrate here, pay their dues (and taxes) and successfully contribute to Canadian society. I also liken it to the broken window theory. If people get upset about instances that are relatively minor and are glad to see action taken(like this), then the larger issues will be much easier to handle in the public realm (ie the whole publishing pictures of criminals and war criminals).

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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby Columbo » Mon Dec 26, 2011 6:35 pm

SierraSeven wrote:If you read what he wrote, he's talking about how some people go off the deep end about overstays as if they were genocide, and not that they are actually worse than genocide.

If I had enough ambition right now I'd post that dead horse beating icon.



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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby gotchya » Mon Dec 26, 2011 7:59 pm

Columbo wrote:As evidenced by various comments, overstays seem to ignite tempers worse than genocide in some peoples' minds. I would challenge people to channel that fervour towards more heinous immigration crimes, such as human trafficking, war criminals seeking refuge, and existing permanent residents that have been convicted of serious crimes involving violence, weapons, and sexual offences.

Fail to see the nexus how being angered by those who abuse the immigration and refugee system has anything to do with the removal of war/serious criminals? :ponder:

Not to mention every day I meet people who speak minimal english/french who manage to immigrate legally.
Last edited by gotchya on Tue Dec 27, 2011 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby TheCanadian » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:15 am

SierraSeven wrote:If you read what he wrote, he's talking about how some people go off the deep end about overstays as if they were genocide, and not that they are actually worse than genocide.

If I had enough ambition right now I'd post that dead horse beating icon.


I interpreted it as him thinking that people have the same attitude towards overstays as they would genocide. Or he used the word genocide to hype up his post, a much less classy move :smirk:

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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby smarmy_rebel » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:46 pm

gotchya wrote:
Columbo wrote:As evidenced by various comments, overstays seem to ignite tempers worse than genocide in some peoples' minds. I would challenge people to channel that fervour towards more heinous immigration crimes, such as human trafficking, war criminals seeking refuge, and existing permanent residents that have been convicted of serious crimes involving violence, weapons, and sexual offences.

Fail to see the nexus how being angered by those who abuse the immigration and refugee system has anything to do with the removal of war/serious criminals? :ponder:

Not to mention every day I meet people who speak minimal english/french who manage to immigrate legally.


If I recall correctly, in the original thread about the Portuguese contractors I remember you having some fairly harsh reactions to people who are essentially just overstays. Saying that they should be arrested for non-compliance, sent through the courts, convicted and then deported... You also said that you'd raise the ARC fee to $10000...

Sounds like time better spent on doing what Columbo suggested and concentrating on the numerous more important threats.

BTW, I thought this thread was moved to the private board... How did it manage to get reignited? Thread merge?

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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby gotchya » Tue Dec 27, 2011 10:34 pm

smarmy_rebel wrote:If I recall correctly, in the original thread about the Portuguese contractors I remember you having some fairly harsh reactions to people who are essentially just overstays. Saying that they should be arrested for non-compliance, sent through the courts, convicted and then deported... You also said that you'd raise the ARC fee to $10000...

You still haven't answered the question. What is the nexus between being angered by the fraudulent and frivolous refugee claimants, and kicking war criminals and organized criminals back? Not to mention these people aren't overstays, they are overstays who were going to be removed and made refugee claims.I'd be interested how they came to the attention of the police and immigration, pure conjecture, but I don't think it was a speeding ticket.

I'm certain every police officer on this forum would rather be busting down doors and breaking up organized crime rings, but they still hand out traffic tickets, why? Because it has to be done to ensure law and order.

The reality is that many of the illegal people working here could be solved by implementing a couple of systems and giving MD's at the POE more authority, but that's a debate for another day.

Why should Canadians be paying for the administration and healthcare of a refugee claim that was made "so they could stay in Canada" (not out of fear, out of convenience) ?

What good is the law we if don't enforce it?
Last edited by gotchya on Wed Dec 28, 2011 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Dec 28, 2011 8:53 am

gotchya wrote:Why should Canadians be paying for the administration and healthcare of a refugee claim that was made "so they could stay in Canada" (not out of fear, out of convenience) ?

What good is the law if don't enforce it?


Exactly. We shouldn't be fitting the bill for these people that make a refugee claim simply because they have no other way of legitimately entering Canada.

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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby smarmy_rebel » Wed Dec 28, 2011 1:23 pm

gotchya wrote:
smarmy_rebel wrote:If I recall correctly, in the original thread about the Portuguese contractors I remember you having some fairly harsh reactions to people who are essentially just overstays. Saying that they should be arrested for non-compliance, sent through the courts, convicted and then deported... You also said that you'd raise the ARC fee to $10000...

You still haven't answered the question. What is the nexus between being angered by the fraudulent and frivolous refugee claimants, and kicking war criminals and organized criminals back? Not to mention these people aren't overstays, they are overstays who were going to be removed and made refugee claims.I'd be interested how they came to the attention of the police and immigration, pure conjecture, but I don't think it was a speeding ticket.

I'm certain every police officer on this forum would rather be busting down doors and breaking up organized crime rings, but they still hand out traffic tickets, why? Because it has to be done to ensure law and order.

The reality is that many of the illegal people working here could be solved by implementing a couple of systems and giving MD's at the POE more authority, but that's a debate for another day.

Why should Canadians be paying for the administration and healthcare of a refugee claim that was made "so they could stay in Canada" (not out of fear, out of convenience) ?

What good is the law we if don't enforce it?


I'm not out to answer the question about the nexus between being angered about overstays and war criminals. Just clarifying Columbo's point about how people shouldn't raise their blood pressure over overstays when there are numerous more threatening problems. All you can do is your part, have some faith in the system and don't take it personally.

I'm not a politician and so I really can't answer your questions about who should pay for it/etc. All I know is that immigration has always been a "niche" department that really hasn't gotten a lot of attention over the decades. Maybe this is due to the fact that the calculation governments have made is that the benefits of open immigration outweigh the negatives. It's going to be interesting what happens in the future because every party is tripping over themselves to capture the new citizen/"immigrant" vote, yet the problems of the system are becoming more pronounced.

Frankly, governments have been dodging these issues by starving enforcement budgets, whether that was under CIC or now CBSA. As I've said in the previous thread, there's probably what, a couple hundred permanent inland enforcement officers across Canada?

This is rather cynical, but maybe they simply prefer to maintain the status quo.

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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby gotchya » Wed Dec 28, 2011 5:44 pm

This is rather cynical, but maybe they simply prefer to maintain the status quo.

Yes, because its working so marvelously. You just said there are numerous dangerous people walking around and you want to keep the status quo? :ponder:

Personally, I don't think you should make a refugee claim inland, you should only be able to make it on entry. If your life is in danger, the moment you stepped foot you'd be running to the first person dressed like an immigration officer and crying to the high heavens how you need refugee protection.
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Deported mom vows to return

Postby gotchya » Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:30 am

Marilia, 27, and nine members of her family spanning three generations were deported to Portugal Thursday evening for living illegally in Toronto since 2001.

They voluntarily presented themselves to Pearson International Airport for the collection of their travel documents and were farewelled by a small group of well wishers.

The family includes grandparents Paul Sr., 46, and Maria Sebastiao, , 44, as well as their children Marilia, 27, Vanessa, 23, Paul Jr., 19, Beatriz, 13, and their four Canadian-born grandchildren under the age of five.

Two of the children belong to Marilia and her Canadian husband and were born in Canada and are citizens.

“I have decided to take them all with me. My husband has to work and social services would take them away. It is weird. There are children in orphanages waiting for adoption and they would take my children. That is how Canada treats children,” Marilia said.

“My marriage sponsorship will likely be approved in two months so it doesn’t make sense for me to leave. I have been here for 10 years and I have a sponsor and they are sending me back but they should know: I will return.’’

Marilia’s lawyer, Tony Dutra, tried up until the end to convince immigration officials to change their mind and even tried to get the prime minister involved.

“The family has to accept the fact they are going back. I have a harder time with regards to Marilia. There is no reason to remove her. Her sponsorship application should be approved,” Dutra said.

The family’s story ran in newspapers in Portugal and the government has arranged for two houses for them to live in.

“This is not good. I don’t know where we will live. People will direct us where we go. This isn’t right. The (Portuguese) government sent a written request to let me stay,” Mirilia said.

The Canadian Border Services Agency says the Sebastiao family only claimed refugee status after police discovered they were illegally in the country for six years.

They claimed they were concerned if they had to go back to Portugal.
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Re: Deported mom vows to return

Postby Punisher-One » Fri Dec 30, 2011 2:21 pm

gotchya wrote:
That is how Canada treats children,” Marilia said.

"I have been here for 10 years and I have a sponsor and they are sending me back but they should know: I will return.’’

“There is no reason to remove her.” Dutra said.

The Canadian Border Services Agency says the Sebastiao family only claimed refugee status after police discovered they were illegally in the country for six years.

They claimed they were concerned if they had to go back to Portugal.


Please person whom is here illegally.....tell me how badly my country treats children. If you don't like it why did you remain here illegally for six years?

Yeah I see no reason to remove a person who illegally remained in Canada, had children here, and then when it was finally figured out that they were here illegally they made a fraudulent refugee claim that cost us, the Canadian tax payer, $40,000.00 to deal with.

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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby gotchya » Fri Dec 30, 2011 3:09 pm

It is estimated that each failed asylum claim costs Canadian taxpayers $50,000, mostly in provincial social service and health costs, and that these reforms would reduce this cost to $29,000 per claim. By shortening the time failed claimants remain in Canada, we could reduce the costs faced by provincial and territorial governments.

These improvements to the asylum system would also allow the Government of Canada to help more refugees resettle to Canada through a commitment to increase the annual refugee resettlement target by 2,500, to a total of up to 14,500 refugees per year.

In addition, as announced yesterday, the Government of Canada would be able to increase Resettlement Assistance Program funding to $54 million, the first increase in over 10 years, in order to help these refugees successfully integrate into Canadian society. Funding would also include an investment to reduce the existing backlog of asylum claims.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department ... -03-30.asp
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Re: Illegal immigrants fear deportation moved

Postby smarmy_rebel » Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:22 am

gotchya wrote:
It is estimated that each failed asylum claim costs Canadian taxpayers $50,000, mostly in provincial social service and health costs, and that these reforms would reduce this cost to $29,000 per claim. By shortening the time failed claimants remain in Canada, we could reduce the costs faced by provincial and territorial governments.

These improvements to the asylum system would also allow the Government of Canada to help more refugees resettle to Canada through a commitment to increase the annual refugee resettlement target by 2,500, to a total of up to 14,500 refugees per year.

In addition, as announced yesterday, the Government of Canada would be able to increase Resettlement Assistance Program funding to $54 million, the first increase in over 10 years, in order to help these refugees successfully integrate into Canadian society. Funding would also include an investment to reduce the existing backlog of asylum claims.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/department ... -03-30.asp


I think we've talked about this on other threads, but obviously one of the biggest problems is the backlog of applications waiting to go through the RPD as that article discusses. It's easy to abuse the system because everyone knows it's a long process. Furthermore, by the time cases are settled, they've established a life here, found a spouse and had kids. So now there's H&Cs.

Even after a claim has been denied, they make an appeal and it takes another year or more to go through the federal courts. I think I read a statistic somewhere that refugee appeals consist of the vast majority of cases currently before the federal courts. And the only reason they go through the federal courts is because the Refugee Appeals Division (RAD) was never implemented when IRPA came into force. Might be a good way to streamline the appeals process and the legislation already exists so...

Once again, the only thing lacking seems to be political motivation... What did I say again about maintaining the status quo?


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