When Police Come, Kids Run...

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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Tommy
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Tommy » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:31 pm

Her Response to me was just lovely...


I wont post it, but I will put the one quote from her that shows she truly does not get it....


Do you need a university degree to be a police officer? If not, you should. It might help to keep out the rif-raf, those who want in only for the status and prestige the power etc.


Yes because no one who goes to university has EVER turned out bad.... *Cough* Bernardo.... *Cough* Williams... *Cough*

Anyways, I'm done wresting in the mud with this pig.... Looking at her facebook page she is the type who clearly revels in this sort of controversy I'm sure...

I do like her little Elitist dig that those without university are clearly rif-raf.... That's certainly telling of exactly where she stands...
"Courage is fear holding on a minute longer." - General George S. Patton

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby devilwoman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:52 pm

My reply.....

Margaret,

Police do think of the possible ramifications of their actions....every traffic stop, every dealing with the public, every arrest. They do not go "balls to the wall" into situations, as is dramatized on police shows, and cross their fingers that it'll all work out in the end. On EVERY public interaction, whether positive or negative, police think about the nature of the contact, possible case law rulings, how their actions can affect them/the person they are dealing with/their co-workers, future case law rulings, their safety, public safety....you name it, its always in the back of their mind. I say this as someone who thinks about the ramifications of my actions EVERY SINGLE TIME I speak with a member of the public or am called to solve their problems for them. I'm not lamenting on how bad my job is.....I chose it and I would not chose anything different on any given day. What I am saying here and am trying to help you understand is that police officers don't take lightly the job they have signed up to do and the ones that are the abusers/robo cops/macho men or women are ones that have slipped through the cracks. Yes, police carry their prejudices and biases, just as any normal person does, but they also carry the knowledge that an everyday citizen does not. The knowledge that an abuser will likely get very little jail time, that a drunk driver will get off on a technicality, that every arrest they make will be second and third guessed and called into question because they are the person responsible for telling another person that they can't steal, hit, or harass.

As far as kids needing to rethink - kids don't think. They can't. Their brains aren't wired yet to think properly, they have poor impulse control, make poor judgements, are unpredictable etc. etc. To say they should just "rethink" is not dealing with the situation at hand and is not fair to them.

Not to sound rude here....but stop making excuses for them. When I was 15, I NEVER once stole my parents car and joy rode around. Or did drugs. Too many times we are excusing people's bad behaviour by looking for some crossed wiring in their brains or bullying in their past. I know that people's brains aren't fully formed until adulthood, but what is there is still ENOUGH to help them decide right from wrong. If you question my experience on this, let me say this...I work with "kids" everyday and of the whole bunch there are less than 5% of the population I deal with that CHOSE to make stupid decisions. If all are still developing their brains, my workload would be much higher. The truth of the matter is, many don't run from police or steal, even at a young age because they chose not to.

Police are people just like any other - and I've known a couple in my life (personally) who I wish I didn't. They carry with them their own prejuidices and biases, their likes and desires. And macho attitude.

So my question to you is....is your opinion based on a "whole" view of policing and its officers or on a few poor interactions with the 1%? If I was to use your metric...say for freelance writers....what would my opinion of them be?

You've taken the time to respond to me so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are consceintious and caring. But let's get real here. Police are people just like any other

I am caring. As for getting real...yes, police are people. Do they make mistakes? Absolutely. That's why there is Professional Standards and the SIU and, if necessary, criminal code charges. However; people need to stop blaming police for when a kid gets caught and hurt from their OWN actions and choices.

Who are the adults here?

The adults are the ones blaming Constable Styles for doing his job and making a LAWFUL stop. You make mention of video cameras for police. Well, what we would see is Constable Styles doing his job. Professionally.

The adults are the ones who teach their kids to do whatever they want because they are kids. The adults are the ones who teach their kids not to respect the laws. The adults are the people who are trying to make excuses for "kids" committing adult crimes.

As for your comments about university degrees being able to make police officers better officers. Here's some information you may not know...even in your course of study. University students get ARRESTED every day. For 1st degree murder, for theft over $5g, for sexual assault, for attempt murder......or how about the one who set fire to the McMaster University residence building? He was in university yet he made a decision to endanger 500 plus people's lives. University degrees do not mean people are any more intelligent or able to deal with real life. Trust me on this.Nor does it mean they are better people, thus better equipped to be a police officer. The best police officer out there is one who has a combination of education, life experience, job experience........and some days the best education is the one you get from living.

This "kid" that you're talking about - he sounds like a lot of kids. Are they all bad kids, or are they just kids? It must sound horrible to hear that his friends were congratulatory toward him - but again - kids are kids - see undeveloped brains, above. It's a question of who's the adult. The tension between teenagers and the police is an age-old one and is playing out in neighbourhoods all over the country.

See my above comments about the 5% of kids. Not all kids act that way and we should not even try to rationalize his behaviour as being part of a tug of war between kids and the 5-0.


I don't expect to change your mind...nor will you change mine. However; before you try to rationalize all youth criminal behaviour, I invite you to wander over to any university campus on a weekend or bar night and see how "kids" behave.


And now I'm done with her.....off to work to harass poor, down trodden, little snowflakes! :mrgreen:
"Don't let someone get comfortable disrespecting you."

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby goaliegibson » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:54 pm

All smart people work on their masters for 13 years, right?...Right?
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devilwoman
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby devilwoman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:57 pm

All smart people work on their masters for 13 years, right?...Right?


Ummmmm....professional student. HAHAHAHA.....kind of like calling a garbage man a "sanitation engineer". :twisted:
"Don't let someone get comfortable disrespecting you."

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby JayDeeDoubleYou » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:31 pm

Office Styles may be alive today if he hadn't tried to remove the keys from the car by putting himself in a vulnerable situation. That's the crux of the matter. What told him that was a smart thing to do? Where did he learn that move? I'm not a cop and even I know that's not a good idea and would put me at risk. So - yes - there is some responsibility on the cop for endangering himself in that situation. Maybe you don't want to hear that, but at least take one thing away from this whole situation - don't try this tactic yourself.


Again, this seems disrespectful and unprofessional. It's not her place to speculate on whether he'd be alive or not, or criticize a fallen member's actions as "not a good idea." I'd like to hear her suggestions as to what he should have done. Shoot the tires out? Write down their plate and let them go and arrest them later?

Know what I think - what this situation has made abundantly clear - police need to be wired with little cameras and audio recorders. Incontrovertible evidence of when a crime is commited and everything that led up to it. All he needed was a picture of the kid behind the wheel and he wouldh've been nailed.


So, what she's saying is that the appropriate actions here would be to pull the punks over, get the kids' faces on camera, then let them leave and "nail" them when they're sober and not in a vehicle, meanwhile risking some catastrophic wreck? They were high and stole a car. What other trouble would they have caused had Cst. Styles not bravely done his duty and stopped them?

Or maybe she thinks cameras and audio recorders are necessary as a measure to keep all the dirty cops in line. :roll:

I sure hope none of Styles' friends or family read her article, and have to suffer seeing their loved one practically crucified and portrayed as an untrained, irresponsible goon.

*Edited for clarity.
Last edited by JayDeeDoubleYou on Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby JayDeeDoubleYou » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:39 pm

devilwoman wrote:And now I'm done with her.....off to work to harass poor, down trodden, little snowflakes! :mrgreen:


How dare you hold poor, innocent 15+ year olds responsible for their actions. They're so young and innocent, they don't know the difference between right and wrong at such a young age. People like you make me sick.

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby JayDeeDoubleYou » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:50 pm

Tommy wrote:Her Response to me was just lovely...

I wont post it, but I will put the one quote from her that shows she truly does not get it....

Do you need a university degree to be a police officer? If not, you should. It might help to keep out the rif-raf, those who want in only for the status and prestige the power etc.


Yes because no one who goes to university has EVER turned out bad.... *Cough* Bernardo.... *Cough* Williams... *Cough*

Anyways, I'm done wresting in the mud with this pig.... Looking at her facebook page she is the type who clearly revels in this sort of controversy I'm sure...

I do like her little Elitist dig that those without university are clearly rif-raf.... That's certainly telling of exactly where she stands...


goaliegibson wrote:her reponse was to me so I don't feel right posting it in an open forum. But she told me to "get over myself" "expand my mind" and university is the new high school. Someone should remind her she has a BA degree and has been working on her masters for 13 years now.


For someone who thinks she's so high and mighty and better than everyone, these are some pretty, uninformed, biased, ignorant, downright stupid statements. She said she developed a thick skin...more like a thick head.

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Tommy » Mon Jul 18, 2011 6:57 pm

Just forward any future hate mail to her workplace...


Here's a Picture of it for reference...

Apparently she is in the office on the top floor...

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby devilwoman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:14 pm

Hello Krista,

I work at a university. I see them all day long. I have my issues with them too, but they're young and excited and on the verge of the their great big lives so I give them some space. And I remember what I was like then too, so I try not to be too judgemental. And alcohol is a problem everywhere.

As I said, we're all different and we all develop differently given the influences of dna and environment. Scratch any parent of a teenager and they will tell you stories of not being able to talk to their kids rationally, to greater or lesser degrees, of course. That you grew up without getting into trouble only means that you grew up not getting into trouble. You are not him or her. And I would say you only see the extreme cases of teenage bad behaviour, but as I said, talk to any teenager's parent and you'll hear how it teenage development plays out in families all over the country, Not every kid gets in trouble with law. I don't make this up, it's science.

I appreciate that the work you do is constantly under scrutiny, especially by people who want off their charges, that you have to be sure in your actions and words. Such is the nature of the legal system. I never said your job was easy, only that you need more training for it.

As far as my opinion on the police - it's built everyday by my interactions with them over the course of my 53 years. I told you about trying to get their support for my daughter - you don't say anything about that. I come to every police encounter with an open mind, even if it's just saying hello in the park. My recent interactions with them, trying to help a neighbour who has fallen into difficulties, have been hugely disappointing. Less than human interaction is all I can say - but they were Burlington cops coming into Hamilton so they might have some sort of issue there, I don't know. But help I did not get. Of course there are exemplary police officers, there are even many just plain good ones, ones that showed compassion and empathy for a bad situation. But there are a number of really bad apples in the bunch. And I didn't say Officer Styles was a bad officer, but he was maybe, just maybe, a little too big for his britches. Trying to grab the keys from the car was a demonstration of power and control. You don't say anything about that either.

I appreciate all you've had to say to me and I understand where you're coming from. If you don't think I didn't think I was going to get push-back, especially from police, you're mistaken. I'm wondering how many looked up my name on line to see where I live and no, I wouldn't put it past them. Not to mention the abuse from some really ignorant people who just want to yell at me in all caps. But I also got support for what I've said. And I hope you too, will see some sense in my words. I get that being a cop can be exciting and the work you do is so very important. Don't let it get to your head and think that everyone is just like you and full of respect for your badge and they'll just roll over and let you rub their bellies when you want them to. There might even be reasons attached to their resistance, very valid reasons that would probably shock the crap out of you if you knew their secrets.

I'm willing to admit that I may have been harsh, Are you willing to admit I may have a point? Becuase untill you can see my point, even if it's just a little pinprick of a point, you're still trapped in your police mind thinking, unable and unwilling to critically examine your own profession. We don't need to worry about blame. There's blame enough for everyone to go around, parents, teachers, kids, bosses, that asshole down the street. I'll take my share of the blame gladly I do every day. What I never, ever hear is police taking responsibility for their share of the blame. There are no innocents - not even the cops.


Thank you Krista, your comments have been one of the more cogent among those received.

Take care,
m.


Her more recent email to me. In case y'all are wondering why I didn't respond to her comments about police not helping her with her out of control child, its due to the fact it wouldn't have come out very nicely.

Basically, I would have questioned how someone who is SO WELL TRAINED in the minds of children has an issue dealing with her own daughter's misfiring brain. Nor will I respond to her complaining that police won't help her neighbour in need....A - I don't know the situation. B - She doesn't seem to grasp that people are adults and police can't force them to do what they want.

Overall she seems to want police to take charge when SHE FEELS it is right to do so and then gets upset when they don't.

Might I add...for someone with a BA and working on a masters she has terrible grammar.
"Don't let someone get comfortable disrespecting you."

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Commish. » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:06 pm

goaliegibson wrote:http://www.thespec.com/opinion/columns/article/564465--when-the-police-come-most-kids-run

Today, there’s a teenager in the hospital, fighting for his life and there’s a young family with no father all because a police officer thought he was just doing his job. The trouble is, sometimes when police do their job it makes the situation worse, sometimes it precipitates tragedy.

Margaret Shkimba is a freelance writer who lives in Hamilton. She can be reached at menrvasofia@gmail.com.

The Police do their jobs because some parents can't do theirs!!!
-People think that I'm quiet because I'm shy, but really I've been silently judging them from afar and determining that they're all fucking retards.

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Kleafloor » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:11 pm

Talk about an armchair quarterback.
All of our dreams can come true -- if we have the courage to pursue them.
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Technobabbler » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:22 pm

I have gone over and over in my mind a bunch of different things to write to her, but I have come to one conclusion. I make it policy to not feed the internet trolls and even though she may be writing for some small paper I am gonna treat her the same way. She is misguided, uninformed and prejudice, nothing I say or write is going change that so I am going to save my breath. Bravo to those of you who have written to her though, there have been some very well thought out responses for a group of people who are apparently suppose to be all macho, domineering and uneducated.

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Punisher-One » Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:24 am

Technobabbler wrote:I have gone over and over in my mind a bunch of different things to write to her, but I have come to one conclusion. I make it policy to not feed the internet trolls and even though she may be writing for some small paper I am gonna treat her the same way. She is misguided, uninformed and prejudice, nothing I say or write is going change that so I am going to save my breath.


I said the same thing to myself.

She is an over-entitled leftist-educated person with no real-world experience at all.

I won't waste my effort on a email.

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Fides » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:07 am

Unbelievable :roll:
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