When Police Come, Kids Run...

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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Toonces
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Toonces » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:38 pm

"The Hamilton Spectator is a division of Metroland Media Group Ltd., a subsidiary of Torstar Corporation"

That says it all doesn't it? The Hamilton Sepctator can now be added to the list of rags that aren't fit to let my dog shit on.
Last edited by Toonces on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby JohnAllen » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:47 pm

Longarm9 wrote:Pitiful piece of trash journalism. I'm glad someone decided to write a counter letter. I hope more police officers write back in response to this garbage.


Just sent an e-mail to her. Looking forward to her response. :swords:

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby SupahDuck » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:47 pm

Margaret Shkimba wrote:Whatever were they thinking, those police officers who came up on my brother and his friends? Where they not thinking of the dangerous area they were in? Did they not think about who they were dealing with? Did they not realize that young boys would run away rather than be caught? :roll: Did they forget what it was like to be young themselves? Did they think their uniforms and shiny badges would automatically command respect? Or give them superhuman powers? Really?

Our police need better training. They need to widen their horizons and expand their minds. They need to see themselves in context to the rest of us, the ones they’re sworn to serve and protect. They need a university degree in sociology, social work, psychology, communications, religion, or any number of the social and human sciences that teach critical thinking skills, gain some real life experience and then undergo specialized police training before they put on a badge.

The job is too important to us, to them, to leave it to on-the-job training.


So what training would you recommend, Ms. Freelance Journalist Margaret Shkimba? What, in your wealth of law enforcement experience, would help those close-minded tunnel-vision cops see the "rest of you"?

What would qualify as "real life" experience, other than dealing with hookers, pimps, drug dealers, suicidal subjects, domestic violence, assault and murder? Huh?

And exactly what sort of "specialized police training" is needed to supplement what you so obviously feel is missing from the Ontario Police College curriculum? Have you even bothered to research what's involved in police training?

And are you really sure that a degree in sociology, social work, psychology, communications or religion will teach critical thinking skills? Sure hasn't taught you anything...

................................

Goddamit, these bleeding-heart apologists park their brains at the door when they write bullsh*t like this.....

Of course, it's everyone else's fault but the kid, who accelerated away for 300m knowing full well he had four other lives in his hands. The paralyzed fu*kwad deserves everything he's going to get. No sympathy or empathy at all.
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Rugger » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:59 pm

devilwoman wrote:I emailed the writer. For those who don't have access to private side...here's my retort.


Nice reply DW.

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby SupahDuck » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:00 pm

Margaret Shkimba: http://www.facebook.com/margaret.shkimba

Project Coordinator at McMaster University
Studied History at York University (Class of 1996 · History · Women's Studies)

Employers:

McMaster University
Project Coordinator · Hamilton, Ontario
Gender & Health Education Initiative, Physician Review Program, Child Life Studies Program, Special Projects

menvraSOFIA Communications
Principal · Hamilton, Ontario
Strategic Communications, Reputation Management

Philosophy:
Religious Views: Mine
Political Views: Very Liberal :roll:


Oh, and look at the comments on her Facebook wall...... she's promoting her own story....... well I hope she's ready for the backlash.

http://www.facebook.com/margaret.shkimba?sk=wall

Margaret, commenting on her own Facebook wall posting: I notice the comments [on the Spectator website] have been disabled. I also notice what a thick skin I'm growing. Nothing like the public to slap you in line if they think you're stepping out of it. Being Wonder Woman; I can take it. Go ahead, take your best shot...:)
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future.

"The key problem is those people who take it personal. Never take shit personal in the enforcement business." - Toonces, Blueline Super-Ultra-Mega Poobah

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby goaliegibson » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:10 pm

I emailed her. She responded. It included how she would perform a traffic stop. AFter reading that I just deleted it. I'm not getting into a pissing match with some loser when I'm not getting paid for it.
Make sure you cc your emails to the editor.
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby devilwoman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:15 pm

She hasn't responded to me as of yet. I'm not surprised she works at Mac.......maybe that's why she's not replying to me...googled my name and all. LOL I shall now await the complaint of harassment to be filed. LOLOL
Last edited by devilwoman on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby SupahDuck » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:16 pm

goaliegibson wrote:I emailed her. She responded. It included how she would perform a traffic stop. AFter reading that I just deleted it. I'm not getting into a pissing match with some loser when I'm not getting paid for it.
Make sure you cc your emails to the editor.


You didn't post it in here? Not worth the time?
It's easier to be a result of the past, but more fun to be a cause of the future.

"The key problem is those people who take it personal. Never take shit personal in the enforcement business." - Toonces, Blueline Super-Ultra-Mega Poobah

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Tommy » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:16 pm

Could you post the Email address for the Spec Editors please?

I'd like to make it known to them that if they keep publishing crap like this I'll never buy another one of their papers again.
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby meathead1 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:25 pm

this broad is nothing more than a complete and total fucking moron. She is absolutley clueless.
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Tommy » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:30 pm

My response...

Less eloquent then Devilwomans... but I'll be damned if I'm just going sit there and let that writer spew her stupidity unchallenged...

Ms. Shkimba,

Regarding your article in the spectator, I am genuinely curious as to whether you are actually hoping for change, or if this is really nothing more then a thinly veiled tabloid article where the real objective is to sell papers...

If you as a writer had any sense of real integrity I assume you would have done your research first and realized that the officers of 1970 and 2011 are two very different creatures. The hiring practices for Law Enforcement are more stringent then ever, and without a proper balance of life experience, education and training, one stands no chance of being hired on.... I as a Police applicant know these things, yet you as an informed journalist, do not... This troubles me greatly, as publishing such opinion pieces as if they are legitimate articles is, to me akin to yelling "fire" in a crowded theater... It serves no real purpose other then to mis-inform the public and further perpetuate stereotypes which serve no good purpose in the end.

While I am sorry that your brother made some bad choices that night I hardly think that blaming the police is the way to go... Perhaps then it is a teachers fault then when a student performs poorly on a test they did not study for, or the Doctors fault when a patients fails to heed their advice and then suffers a heart attack etc...

Do you see where I am going with this? People in society scream from the highest mountain tops about all their "Rights" but then say nothing at all when it comes to their "Responsibilities".

Your Father blamed the police. Perhaps he should have blamed himself for not teaching his children that they are 100% accountable for the actions they take. Perhaps that is really what this article should be about... Taking responsibility for your own actions or inaction rather then looking for a way to blame the closest authority figure.

I dont expect you to change your opinion, and I would hope you dont expect to change mine. However when you flat out insult the memory of a Police officer whose final words were about looking after the people in the van who killed him.... Well as a Citizen and Law Enforcement supporter I'm not about to sit by and allow you to voice your ill informed, ignorant opinion unchallenged.

Good Day to you.



My Letter to the Editor of the Spec: Paul Burton - Email: pberton@thespec.com
Good Day,

I have attached a copy of the letter I wrote to Ms. Shkimba, for you to read as well..

While I understand that her article was an Opinion piece I expected a higher level of journalistic professionalism from the Spectator to print something that contained at least a few contemporary facts. Ms Shkimba's article grossly mis-informs the reader and attempts to compare the modern Police Constable with one from the 1970's as if nothing has changed. She clearly projects her experiences onto her judgement of the Tragedy which befell Constable Garrett Styles. Something which I find insulting and offensive.

I have been a supporter of the Police and Law Enforcement for a long time, and will admit that they are not perfect. However articles such as this do nothing but discredit the amazing job that LEO's do every day in making our communities safer.

I would ask that you seriously reconsider posting such tabloid style articles in future editions or I will have to seriously reconsider buying your newspaper, and encouraging all my friends and family to do the same.

Regards,


I'm sure nothing will change... but I feel slightly better having actually spoke up over this trash.....
Last edited by Tommy on Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby goaliegibson » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:38 pm

My email
Dear Margaret Shkimba,

It truly was a tragedy your little brother died. It's always a tragedy when a family loses it's brother or son. Unfortunately your placement of blame on the police is completely misguided and i can only assume misplaced by your emotions.
Your brother was engaged in an illegal activity that night on the mountain. So let's look at it another way. Your brother is out there, drinks himself into a stupor and falls off that waterfall. It would most likely in your eyes still be the police fault. "why weren't the police there?" you'd cry. "If the police would patrol more in that area, this never would happen" the opinion pieces would read. It's so easy to place the blame on someone else isn't it?
You say that police should get a university degree. I fail to see how a degree in religious studies would have changed that situation. Police are paid to enforce the law, on both adults and youths. Drinking underage in a public place is against the law. Plain and simple. If you're brother had simply taken responsibility for his actions he would have most likely had his beer taken away and asked to leave. No further repercussions. I fail to see how this is the police officers fault.
You say if the police hadn't showed up, then my brother may be alive. Well if you're brother was abiding the law, the police wouldn't have showed up.

You say the police need better training, yet I doubt you have any idea how much training they receive. You seem to assume all police are dummies with a badge and a gun trying to use their "super human powers" and their "shiny badges" to get their shred of respect from teens. Most police officers have multiple years of schooling (most commonly B.A., B.Sc. degrees) and have multiple years of volunteering and work experience under their belt. If you looked at the police as people, as opposed to a scary oppressive force, you'd know this.

Now you state a young family is without his father because a police "thought he was doing his job". What a load of garbage. That officer was doing his job like he did every night. That officer put his life on the line to protect everyone in his community and paid the ultimate price. That vehicle was clearly a danger to everyone on the road and he was putting a stop to it. Doing exactly what his job entails. How exactly would you attend this situation? Come up singing Koombya? I'm sure his years of religious studies would really help. I doubt you can answer that question. To even imply that officer wasn't doing his job is an affront to police officers everywhere. You should apologize to those who work every night to keep you safe. How would you feel if that car driven by the unlicenced driver had been in a car crash with your family? Then the cries would be "where are the police?! They got a call for this out of control vehicle but they didn't do anything!"

It's so easy to arm chair quater back. I believe the saying is "don't judge till you walk a mile in their shoes". Maybe you should strap on that "Shiny badge" and go work the beat. See what it's like when every decision is second guessed in the media by some reporter who has never seen a night shift.

This article is hurtful to every police officer everywhere and I think you owe every single one an apology. We are mourning our brother, and you come and you imply he wasn't doing his job. Shame on you and and shame on the hamilton spectator for running this biased piece.


-Kyle

(P.S. They're called facts, use them sometime)
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goaliegibson
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby goaliegibson » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:44 pm

her reponse was to me so I don't feel right posting it in an open forum. But she told me to "get over myself" "expand my mind" and university is the new high school. Someone should remind her she has a BA degree and has been working on her masters for 13 years now.
In either case she's ignorant and just looking to make some controversy for herself. I could really care less. I said my piece to her and her editor and she said hers.
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Reese
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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby Reese » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:08 pm

In few words or less, I told her to get a grip. She replied by telling me to loosen mine and open my mind..

Ahhhhh journalists..

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Re: When Police Come, Kids Run...

Postby devilwoman » Mon Jul 18, 2011 4:11 pm

Well she replied to me......

Thank you Krista for your comments.

Police need to think through their actions to the possible ramifications of them. That's what my point is re: my brother's death.
Office Styles may be alive today if he hadn't tried to remove the keys from the car by putting himself in a vulnerable situation. That's the crux of the matter. What told him that was a smart thing to do? Where did he learn that move? I'm not a cop and even I know that's not a good idea and would put me at risk. So - yes - there is some responsibility on the cop for endangering himself in that situation. Maybe you don't want to hear that, but at least take one thing away from this whole situation - don't try this tactic yourself.
I don't know you. You've taken the time to respond to me so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt that you are consceintious and caring. But let's get real here. Police are people just like any other - and I've known a couple in my life (personally) who I wish I didn't. They carry with them their own prejuidices and biases, their likes and desires. And macho attitude. Some would argue that policing attracts a certain authoritarian type. But my point is you're not all robo-cops. And there have even been instances where cops have acted not so well - Dhinsa - one of our own - comes to mind without even having to think far. I know lots of kids who want to be police, there's no shortage waiting to apply for whatever personal reason they have to be a cop. You do good work, but you do crappy work too. Remember, you're just people. Don't be offended - there are good and bad doctors and nurses too - and that should really be surprising given their oath to care.

What is hurting the image of the police is their lack of self-relfection, lack of professional humility and the refusal to accept that they are just people like everyone else and god forbid they should be caught being the ones in the wrong. Doctors can be like that too.

There is wrong on both sides. There's enough blame to be spread all over the country, like horseshit. But all I hear is blame going one way. To the kids. Who are the adults here?

As far as kids needing to rethink - kids don't think. They can't. Their brains aren't wired yet to think properly, they have poor impulse control, make poor judgements, are unpredictable etc. etc. To say they should just "rethink" is not dealing with the situation at hand and is not fair to them. In the case of Officer Styles and a family that couldn't control a kid - well - I've had experience with that too. And when I called the police to come in and help me control my out-of-control daughter, I was the bad guy, or gal in this case, and my kid was the one who got all the attention - of the wrong kind. "Are your parents harming you?" was their big concern. How long do you think it took for her to clue in to where her support lay. When I asked the male cop to be "bad cop" and please explain to her what could happen to her if she didn't come home at night (because as a cop you know I can't lock her up, nor could I beat her like my father beat me, right). I implored him, please,please tell her what your experiences with street kids are, he looked at her and started the conversation with "listen sweetie" and peppered it with "sweeties" throughout, in the most gentle and kind voice I've ever heard coming from a blue uniform. The kid that was telling me to go fuck myself not an hour earlier and rampaging around the house. He was more interested in being her friend than in being my ally. I eventually had to sign her over to children's aid until she came around, but it was hard, tough work. That's not the cops fault - but it's not mine either. It's just the way it was. It's not easy raising children. Especially teenagers. We're fine now, she grew up and her brain filled in. This "kid" that you're talking about - he sounds like a lot of kids. Are they all bad kids, or are they just kids? It must sound horrible to hear that his friends were congratulatory toward him - but again - kids are kids - see undeveloped brains, above. It's a question of who's the adult. The tension between teenagers and the police is an age-old one and is playing out in neighbourhoods all over the country.

Could his parents have done more - well - because the car needs keys to start, the keys should have been kept in a more secure location and away from the kid. That's all they can do. I hid my daughters shoes. Parents have very little power these days. The only power I had was over at Children's Aid - and believe me - I tried everything before going that route.

I know someone who fell afoul of the law when he was a young teenager and before there was a Young Offender's Act. Good thing for the YOA is all I have to say. We forget why some things were brought in when we get used to their existance, we forget just how bad it was - like anti-choice people who would rather back street abortions be brought back than deal with the matter of reprodcutive choice humanely.

Know what I think - what this situation has made abundantly clear - police need to be wired with little cameras and audio recorders. Incontrovertible evidence of when a crime is commited and everything that led up to it. All he needed was a picture of the kid behind the wheel and he wouldh've been nailed.

Safety first - for both the police and the people they serve. I've had people respond who agree with me, some of them ex-cops. I have a point.

Stay safe.


I'll post my retort when I email it.
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