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General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
Protector24
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Postby Protector24 » Wed Feb 02, 2011 11:20 pm

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Last edited by Protector24 on Sun May 26, 2013 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby Punisher-One » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:34 am

“Canadians do have more lenient asylum and immigration laws than we do here, and that potentially has an effect on us because of our border with them.”

Yep we sure do.

Here is hoping that this new border security initiative will put an end to that.

This just goes to show how pathetic our system really is that an outside country knows how bad it is.

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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby THEGATEKEEPER » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:14 am

Force Recon wrote:“Canadians do have more lenient asylum and immigration laws than we do here, and that potentially has an effect on us because of our border with them.”

Yep we sure do.

Here is hoping that this new border security initiative will put an end to that.

This just goes to show how pathetic our system really is that an outside country knows how bad it is.


Fingers Crossed

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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby gotchya » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:23 am

Force Recon wrote:“Canadians do have more lenient asylum and immigration laws than we do here, and that potentially has an effect on us because of our border with them.”

Yep we sure do.

Here is hoping that this new border security initiative will put an end to that.

This just goes to show how pathetic our system really is that an outside country knows how bad it is.

There is a reason that the Americans have been putting increasing resources along their northern border.

We as Canadians need to evaluate our commitment to the rest of the world in dealing with refugees and our relationship with these other countries.
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby SupahDuck » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:28 am

In practical terms, how would you Border guys like to see this play out? Would tighter integration with the DHS and CBP databases help you get your jobs done?

The FBI just launched their N-DEX system ( http://www.networkworld.com/community/b ... rch-engine ), which provides integration of LE information across federal, state and municipal systems. Is that something you guys would find useful too (i.e. the U.S. version of CPIC?)

I'm wondering just how far they are going to integrate things... and more importantly, what YOU guys would like to see on your wish list.

(Edit: as soon as I hit submit, I realized that this may be a discussion better had on the private side, no?)
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby Infidel » Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:54 am

Personally, I'd like to see things tighten up a bit. A dripping tap becomes worse over time. I don't think any BSO wants to keep out legit refugees that truly need humanitarian assistance. I think the big issue is people who just want to skip to the front of the line, so show up here with expensive suitcases full of new clothes and bags of cash and say "refugee" as soon as they see a uniform.

I would also like to see a quicker system to verify these "refugees" and the ability to send them back home faster. If anything, it would make the public look upon us more favorably :D . They like to hear about us "kicking people out".
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby gotchya » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:13 am

SupahDuck wrote:In practical terms, how would you Border guys like to see this play out? Would tighter integration with the DHS and CBP databases help you get your jobs done?

Privacy act.
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby SupahDuck » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:02 pm

gotchya wrote:
SupahDuck wrote:In practical terms, how would you Border guys like to see this play out? Would tighter integration with the DHS and CBP databases help you get your jobs done?

Privacy act.


Dammit. Stupid trump card.

What about the lowered expectations of privacy at the border and all? Within the constraints of your duties, isn't there a subset of personal information that can be shared between agencies by virtue of the person expressing their desire to cross the border?

To use an analogy from my side of the fence, as soon as someone enters the federal reserve of the prison, they agree to have their person and belongings/vehicle searched, as per the abundant signage at our entrances. They want to visit? They get searched.

Wouldn't the same principle apply to you? You want to cross the border? Prepare to have this specific list of information about you and your travels shared between LE agencies on both sides of the border. Price you pay for moving freely, no?
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby gotchya » Thu Feb 03, 2011 12:22 pm

R. v. Simmons(Supreme Court of Canada) wrote:I accept the proposition advanced by the Crown that the degree of personal privacy reasonably expected at customs is lower than in most other situations. People do not expect to be able to cross international borders free from scrutiny. It is commonly accepted that sovereign states have the right to control both who and what enters their boundaries. For the general welfare of the nation the state is expected to perform this role. Without the ability to establish that all persons who seek to cross its borders and their goods are legally entitled to enter the country, the state would be precluded from performing this crucially important function. Consequently, travellers seeking to cross national boundaries fully expect to be subject to a screening process. This process will typically require the production of proper identification and travel documentation and involve a search process beginning with completion of a declaration of all goods being brought into the country. Physical searches of luggage and of the person are accepted aspects of the search process where there are grounds for suspecting that a person has made a false declaration and is transporting prohibited goods.


However, this largely affects personal search and searched for physical good. The issue with border security is that efficiency is achieved by screening passengers before they enter Canada, or board the plane to do so.

I begs the question how much privacy can be expected in a free and democratic society, and how much privacy must one surrender to ensure the safety and security of that nation.

A good documentary made by PBS Frontline about the American Information Reform
Last edited by gotchya on Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby Gard » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:32 pm

The liberals and the NDP will be sure to scream that any border initiative will remove our sovereignty and invade our privacy.

They won't be happy until we're a financially ruined, terrorist-filled failed state.
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby Luke101 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 1:40 pm

Gard wrote:The liberals and the NDP will be sure to scream that any border initiative will remove our sovereignty and invade our privacy.

They won't be happy until we're a financially ruined, terrorist-filled failed state.


No, they still won't be happy. Only they'll blame our welfare system for forcing people to be criminals.

And Mike Harris, because why not?
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby Punisher-One » Thu Feb 03, 2011 2:42 pm

gotchya wrote:Privacy act.


Yep. They need to throw that thing into the garbage.
Until that is done then we are legislatively prohibited from sharing information with anyone.
I won't go into it on the public side here but there are situations that make me so angry I can't share information.

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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby Bitterman » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:18 pm

It's sad really...

I mean really what have "countries' become...?

Giant prisons... Some You can't leave without special permission and other's won't let you in without a visitors pass.


Bottom line... None of these "improvemnets" make any real impact against determined threats.. Just jacks up the common folk and drives up the cost of legit trade.
Admit nothing.
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gotchya
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Re: Harper and Obama eye sweeping change in border security

Postby gotchya » Fri Feb 04, 2011 12:59 am

Bitterman wrote:It's sad really...
I mean really what have "countries' become...?
Giant prisons... Some You can't leave without special permission and other's won't let you in without a visitors pass.
Bottom line... None of these "improvemnets" make any real impact against determined threats.. Just jacks up the common folk and drives up the cost of legit trade.

I can't agree, ultimately every country has the right to refuse anyone (except their own citizens) entry.

Prata v. Minister of Manpower & Immigration, [1976] 1 S.C.R. 376 wrote:At common law no alien has any right to enter this country except by leave of the Crown; and the Crown can refuse leave without giving any reason: see Schmidt v. Secretary of State for Home Affairs [1969] 2 Ch. 149 at 168. If he comes by leave, the Crown can impose such conditions as it thinks fit, as to his length of stay, or otherwise. He has no right whatever to remain here. He is liable to be sent home to his own country at any time if, in the opinion of the Crown, his presence here is not conducive to the public good; and for this purpose, the executive may arrest him and put him on board a ship or aircraft bound for his own country: see R. v. Brixton Prison (Governor), ex parte Soblen [1963] 2 Q.B. 243 at 300, 301. The position of aliens at common law has since been covered by various regulations; but the principles remain the same.
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