BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby Tango5 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:56 pm

Wood Buffalo, AB has 1/3 of Surrey's number of members.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby th » Fri Sep 17, 2010 12:59 pm

As far as the interior of BC goes, the RCMP isn't going anywhere in the near future. I would expect the new contract to have clauses in it that will lay the groundwork for regionalization in greater Vancouver and greater Victoria. Surrey squawks every couple of years about having their own municipal force, but it isn't going to happen outside the creation of a regional police service.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby BROVO26 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:30 pm

Podhalan wrote:Not that I am saying it will happen but heard over the radio this morning that Surrey might be the most likely prospect to go Municipal.

Edit: most likely just rumors.


Over the next 20 years, maybe. Let’s just say Vancouver, Surrey, Burnaby, Abbotsford, New West, Richmond, West Van and Delta are a mix of municipal Police services… what kind of a cluster Fu*k would that be! :ponder:
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby Tango5 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:56 pm

BROVO26 wrote:
Podhalan wrote:Not that I am saying it will happen but heard over the radio this morning that Surrey might be the most likely prospect to go Municipal.

Edit: most likely just rumors.


Over the next 20 years, maybe. Let’s just say Vancouver, Surrey, Burnaby, Abbotsford, New West, Richmond, West Van and Delta are a mix of municipal Police services… what kind of a cluster Fu*k would that be! :ponder:


I have better one for you. Read this in province the other day, something to do with cutting on City employees.

Poco, coq and port moody form Tricity.
There are rumors that Tricity is going to be one municipality with one City Hall. If that happens how will Port Moody PD fit with RCMP as in one municipality? Lol

BTW, I think we are hijacking this thread.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby OnTalyn » Fri Sep 17, 2010 4:58 pm

BROVO26 wrote:Over the next 20 years, maybe. Let’s just say Vancouver, Surrey, Burnaby, Abbotsford, New West, Richmond, West Van and Delta are a mix of municipal Police services… what kind of a cluster Fu*k would that be! :ponder:

Why would it be a cluster f? Works fine for Toronto, York, Peel, Hamilton, OPP, Niagara, Barrie etc...

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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby BROVO26 » Fri Sep 17, 2010 6:23 pm

OnTalyn wrote:
BROVO26 wrote:Over the next 20 years, maybe. Let’s just say Vancouver, Surrey, Burnaby, Abbotsford, New West, Richmond, West Van and Delta are a mix of municipal Police services… what kind of a cluster Fu*k would that be! :ponder:

Why would it be a cluster f? Works fine for Toronto, York, Peel, Hamilton, OPP, Niagara, Barrie etc...


The system back east has grown and evolved over many years with a Provincial Police force intact. In BC we would be starting from scratch. Add in mayors and politicians with their own agendas, the loss of the RCMP policing discount and then the start up costs of new police forces! I am not saying the RCMP are the end all to be all, but their departure will leave a huge vacuum and power struggle.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby Dave Jenkins » Fri Sep 17, 2010 8:54 pm

BROVO26 wrote:
Over the next 20 years, maybe. Let’s just say Vancouver, Surrey, Burnaby, Abbotsford, New West, Richmond, West Van and Delta are a mix of municipal Police services… what kind of a cluster Fu*k would that be! :ponder:


The Integrated Road Safety Unit must be a Cluster Fuck as it is a blend of RCMP and municipal police. From what I have read and heard it seems to work. The bottom line is a lot of communities/provinces no longer want the RCMP to do their policing. The RCMP do (municipal/provincial) policing in various provinces under contract. Contracts made possible through respective (provincial) police acts. The "discount" given by the RCMP somehow seems to be loosing its appeal when "Y" number of officers are shown on paper as to be available but only "X" are in fact in place.

The accountability of the RCMP is not nearly as stringent to a province as would it owns police force's. Even bean counters can see that when you are paying for something you should see as much of 100% return as is possible. When the return on your money drops considerably under that then you are loosing.

My comments are in no way suggesting the the front line members of the RCMP are an issue. it, in my view, is the system that is in place in provinces west of Ontario.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby Mongo » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:01 pm

Dave Jenkins wrote:
BROVO26 wrote: The "discount" given by the RCMP somehow seems to be losing its appeal when "Y" number of officers are shown on paper as to be available but only "X" are in fact in place.

That shell game is taking place everywhere.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby th » Fri Sep 17, 2010 9:44 pm

Podhalan wrote:Poco, coq and port moody form Tricity.
There are rumors that Tricity is going to be one municipality with one City Hall. If that happens how will Port Moody PD fit with RCMP as in one municipality? Lol

In the 90s, the municipalities of Abbotsford and Matsqui amalgamated. Matsqui had its own police force and Abbotsford had an RCMP detachment. A referendum was held and the citizens voted to keep the municipal force and dump the mounties. Thus, the Abbotsford Police Department was born.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby Flames300 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:11 am

I don't know the answer to this question but in a province like Alberta would it really be that much more expensive for the province to maintain it's own police force? I do realize that there would be substantial spending on hiring, training, etc... I hear a lot about the expense of the start up costs for switching from RCMP to provincial but doesn't the province already pay a substantial amount for the infrastructure?
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The Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Alberta will replace its only helicopter this winter when the $3-million Eurocopter A-Star 350 B3 arrives. The new chopper, expected to be in service by February, will replace the RCMP’s current Bell Jet Ranger, which was bought in 1993 and stationed in Edmonton.

The Alberta province will cover 70 percent of the funding for the new purchase, and the Ottawa province will cover the remaining. The aircraft will be used for search and rescue operations, detection of criminal activities such as marijuana grow operations and transportation of human resources.
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from http://www.alea.org/public/newsletters/ ... .aspx#RCMP

Does that sort of 70/30 split also apply to cruisers, detachments and other expenditures?

The feds subsidize the RCMP by between 10% and 30% so the province is already paying 70% if not a little bit more PLUS the province is paying for the 400 +(???) Sheriffs. I thought that the "discount" is to compensate the province as RCMP members sometimes end up doing federal policing during their regular duties. If the province took over provincial policing you would still have RCMP in the province working under their federal mandate. Something like 78% or the province is already being policed by muni PO's so they wouldn't be affected.

I don't work in LE but just wanted to throw that out there to hear some other opinions. Personally I think that Alberta and BC should have provincial police forces and that the RCMP should be spending much more time and resources on Federal duties but that is another budget issue in itself. I don't think that the RCMP have done a poor job or that a provincial police force would be much better however I feel that the RCMP is being asked to specialize in too many areas and should focus on Federal policing.

Again, just a thought, any others?

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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby gotchya » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:27 am

Podhalan wrote:Wood Buffalo, AB has 1/3 of Surrey's number of members.

Yup you're right...

Wood Buffalo’s RCMP team is the largest in Alberta with over 180 regular members.

http://www.woodbuffalo.ab.ca/rcmp/html/detachment/index.htm

The Surrey Detachment is the largest RCMP Detachment in Canada with nearly 600 police (regular and civilian) members and a support staff of over 200 municipal employees.

http://surrey.rcmp.ca/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=70&languageId=1&contentId=-1
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby Tango5 » Sat Sep 18, 2010 1:54 am

Yah, its HUGE.
Soon all the watches\districts will start form Main, I can only imagine the mess it will create at first. Can you picture all the PC's (vehicles) in one spot? :swords: :wounded:
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby Queen's Cowboy » Sun Sep 19, 2010 10:25 pm

Malibu wrote:I think when it comes to the term "specialist", many people are trying to make themselves feel justified in their chosen path. You could argue that every single section in the police universe, other than general duty, is therefore a "specialist" position as that is all you concentrate on. Enforcing the various motor vehicle acts, in my opinion, is not nearly as specialized as being in forensics, dog man, serious/major (murders) crime. I also believe that some areas of sections could be considered "specialized" such as writting a "part six" warrant or being a interogator/polygraph operator or rappel master/sniper on an ERT. But merely enforcing the multitude of sections in a motor vehicle act, no, you are not a "specialist".

And on the note of one or two sherrifs backing me up, I'd take them if I had to, but they would have no experience outside of theif ticket writting. I would prefer the member who has done general duty for a while to back me up.


I think the dim view of Traffic Services goes back to the days when that is where a lot of poor performers, problem children, almost retired, etc. were dumped there to hide them. The unit that I am assigned to is one of four in the Province of Alberta ( all on the QEII Hwy ) that actually take complaints ( a lot of BS ones as everyone has a cell phone & can dial 911 ), does the follow up investigation and manages the file. We all have Level II Collision Investigation training and at minimum basic interdiction training ( I have advanced + commercial ). We also specialize in other areas, from doing public education with a roll over simulator and/or seat belt convincer. I personally "specialize" in writing search warrants to seize Hospital blood and Patient Treatment Records, and/or Tele-warrant, as part of the local CCIT ( Criminal Collision Investigation Team ), while others have taken advanced interview/interrogation training to deal with witnesses and/or the suspect. Somebody invariably gets to be the "stick boy" for the Collision Reconstructionist when he arrives.

The QEII, to me, is almost like my previous GD posting, only everybody is doing 120+ kph while you're walking amongst them. The majority of the local GD members absolutely cringe when they have to respond to complaints on the QEII when we are off, or to assist at a major event ( in April I had a 72 car pile-up in blizzard, white out conditions ). I have attended domestics in progress on the Hwy; fatality collisions in all and any conditions is a given; located discarded clothing that solved a short string of bank robberies; lead Investigator on a jewel heist where a travelling wholesaler of uncut gems was robbed of $250K+.

Why enforcing various sections of the MVA or TSA, or whatever acronym your Province uses, seems silly to you, it does give reason for a traffic stop. Here in Alberta, Johnny Shitrat still has to get from point A to point B by driving, he/she cannot teleport as far as I know. If Johnny is up to something, hopefully I can use my various skills aquired over the years and disrupt the enterprise. If nothing else, a piece of paper or two will encourage him/her to stay away from my town, or move away if a resident. I can also pass on info from stop to the local GIS unit. If enough paper is given, eventually Johnny will lose his license, and I can seize his/her vehicle if he/she continues to drive.

The only "knock" I have on the Sheriffs, is that their superiors have programmed them into a "quantity" over "quality" mentality for ticket writing. Their Supervisors seem to equate more tickets = better road safety. My first Cpl. at this unit was almost there, he could go out for 2 hours, come back with 40 speeding tickets ( all in the 127, 128 range on a Hwy posted as 110 ) and then give us the gears we weren't doing the same. I would go out for 2 hours, come back with only 10 tickets, but NOTHING under 140, always a couple 150 - 160.

As for back up, a Sheriff is fine by me. All JS sees is another set of red/blue lights and somebody else with a gun.
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby CPS24 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:36 am

I don't think most citizens know the difference between a PO and a Sheriff. I personally thought Alberta Sheriffs WERE a new provincial police force when I first saw them on the streets, to be honest. Until I found out a short time later exactly what happened there, I just thought they started a new force and picked 'Sheriffs' as a fancy name to be like some of our American cousins. :?

Although don't they (at least AB Sheriffs) get the same training as say, CPS or EPS? I don't think it would take much to get new car decals and uniforms and transform em into a new department called A.P.P. :ponder:
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Re: BC Sherrif's, cheap Highway cops?

Postby Pete Broccolo » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:51 pm

Edited since this is The Rant.
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