Vancouver police shoot man

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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SPC
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Vancouver police shoot man

Postby SPC » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:18 am

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - A man is dead after a police shooting on Granville Street in Vancouver on Monday night. Inspector Tony Zanatta with the Vancouver police said that officers received a 911 call about a fight at 16th and Granville Street. When they got there, a group of men were still fighting and one man came at an officer and hit him with a chain. He said that a second officer was also hit and then a third officer shot and killed the suspect.

Witnesses have told News1130 that they heard up to a dozen shots and then saw a man lying in the middle of the street. They say paramedics tried to save him, but he died there.

_______________________________________________________________________________

Does anybody know if VPD has ready access to tasers? Would have been a great less than lethal option here I would think. Best wishes to all involved.
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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby PC Hopeful » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:53 am

Did they find a chain on the man? I didn't see it mentioned by any of the witnesses. Either way its 3 police officers words against a dead guy. And then there is the whole perception of "imminent threat of greivous bodily harm and/or death" that prompted the officer to shoot.

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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby Punisher-One » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:45 am

PC Hopeful wrote:Did they find a chain on the man? I didn't see it mentioned by any of the witnesses. Either way its 3 police officers words against a dead guy. And then there is the whole perception of "imminent threat of greivous bodily harm and/or death" that prompted the officer to shoot.


Your awefully critical of Police on these forums for someone whose "hopeful" to become an officer.

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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby Z# » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:53 am

I was a little confused about that myself.
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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby SPC » Tue Aug 14, 2007 11:14 am

Vince wrote:
PC Hopeful wrote:Did they find a chain on the man? I didn't see it mentioned by any of the witnesses. Either way its 3 police officers words against a dead guy. And then there is the whole perception of "imminent threat of greivous bodily harm and/or death" that prompted the officer to shoot.


Your awefully critical of Police on these forums for someone whose "hopeful" to become an officer.


:aye: I mean if Grandma's wooden leg = GBH / Death, than a drunk crazy maniac wielding a chain who has already smashed two officers in the head / face definately = GBH / Death. A hard decision for the PC to have to make I imagine. Just glad everyone involved other than the decedant is ok.
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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby th » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:45 pm

PC Hopeful wrote:Did they find a chain on the man? I didn't see it mentioned by any of the witnesses. Either way its 3 police officers words against a dead guy. And then there is the whole perception of "imminent threat of greivous bodily harm and/or death" that prompted the officer to shoot.

Gee I don't know. The fact that two police officers ended up in the hospital (one of whom had to stay overnight form what I understand) would seem to indicate a fairly credible threat to the safety of the members involved. From what I heard, the "eye witness" that has been interviewed by the media was over a block away when the incident took place.

SPC wrote:Does anybody know if VPD has ready access to tasers? Would have been a great less than lethal option here I would think. Best wishes to all involved.
Yes VPD does have tasers on the road. However each district usually only has a handful of members with less lethal on at a time. I don't know about you, but if I saw some guy bash two of my colleagues with a chain, I wouldn't be reaching for the taser.
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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby SPC » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:11 pm

Oh I agree that lethal force was justified. We don't know the circumstances, and I fully support the officer in making what must have been a very difficult decision. My only point was that, if the situation warranted (ie: the man hit one PC, and now was standing there threatening to hit another...no immediate GBH) the taser would have been employed with lethal oversight in case it was ineffective. Just another option.
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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby Campus-Cst » Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:27 pm

PC Hopeful wrote:Did they find a chain on the man? I didn't see it mentioned by any of the witnesses. Either way its 3 police officers words against a dead guy. And then there is the whole perception of "imminent threat of greivous bodily harm and/or death" that prompted the officer to shoot.



Dude, you need to walk a mile in an officers shoes... Those in LE knows the use of force continum allows the officer to pick the most appropriate level of force. You're playing armchair quarterback. You weren't there, so you have no right to second guess. The bottom line is the officers are ok.

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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby dusty » Tue Aug 14, 2007 3:40 pm

:aye: Well said Campus Cst. I'm glad the officers are alright.
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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby dira necessitas » Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:59 pm

PC Hopeful wrote:Did they find a chain on the man? I didn't see it mentioned by any of the witnesses. Either way its 3 police officers words against a dead guy. And then there is the whole perception of "imminent threat of greivous bodily harm and/or death" that prompted the officer to shoot.



I don't see any conflict in PC Hopeful's remarks here guys. He doesn't appear to be critical at all...... That is how I see it.... Unless I am out to lunch..... am I out to lunch PC Hopeful?
I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but let's take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself.

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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby Tengard137 » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:20 pm

From what I have read the officers had every right to use lethal force in this instance. I will be drawing my gun immediately if I see my partner get smashed in the head with a chain!

I am hoping "PC Hopeful" was commenting on the quagmire of paperwork and trouble that these officers will now have to go through, not that he was doubting them in any way?

Although the "Did they find the chain" comment is pretty disturbing. :ponder:

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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby PC Hopeful » Tue Aug 14, 2007 7:29 pm

Read the first post of this thread, which is the one I responded to. The creator of this thread wrote

VANCOUVER (NEWS1130) - A man is dead after a police shooting on Granville Street in Vancouver on Monday night. Inspector Tony Zanatta with the Vancouver police said that officers received a 911 call about a fight at 16th and Granville Street. When they got there, a group of men were still fighting and one man came at an officer and hit him with a chain. He said that a second officer was also hit and then a third officer shot and killed the suspect.

Witnesses have told News1130 that they heard up to a dozen shots and then saw a man lying in the middle of the street. They say paramedics tried to save him, but he died there.


Based on this post and the fact that the witnesses mention nothing of a man wielding a chain, just them hearing a dozen shots and seeing a man laying in the street.

There was no further information, it seems like the police department was investigating the shooting and releasing very little information. So my post was pretty objective I think

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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby Mark S » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:07 pm

dira necessitas wrote:
PC Hopeful wrote:Did they find a chain on the man? I didn't see it mentioned by any of the witnesses. Either way its 3 police officers words against a dead guy. And then there is the whole perception of "imminent threat of greivous bodily harm and/or death" that prompted the officer to shoot.



I don't see any conflict in PC Hopeful's remarks here guys. He doesn't appear to be critical at all...... That is how I see it.... Unless I am out to lunch..... am I out to lunch PC Hopeful?

There was quite a critical air about those comments, whether they were genuine questions or not. They questioned the truthfulness of what police were releasing, pointed out that the police could lie about what happened, and pointed out that regardless of what happened the police can take defence behind their own "perception" of what happened. Its typical anti-police rhetoric, stating that one way or another the police are or will be lying about what happened as its assumed they didn't act appropriately. I'm not saying this was PC Hopeful's intention, but it certainly can be read in that manner.

If you've ever been the victim of the lynch mob that forms anytime police exercise their authority, and all their armchair quarterbacking, and their claims of large government conspiracies etc., you get a little touchy when someone starts questioning things unnecessarily. There's already plenty levels of review of what couple guys did in a matter of a couple seconds while under attack. We certainly don't need to have people, who are on our own board and supposed on our side, launching their own investigation-through-media on the subject. A criminal is dead and a bunch of cops are hopefully making a speedy recovery, that's all that matters at this point.
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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby PC Hopeful » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:21 pm

I am not assuming anyone is lieing, I am also not assuming everyone is telling the truth. I am just trying to be objective about the original post, for all I know everyone could be lieing and its a giant conspiracy. I hear all the time that officers are to apply critical thinking and look at both objective and subjective evidence. For a fact, everyone lies, police, lawyers, sports athletes, politicians, me, you. I cheated on my girlfriend and didn't tell her, does it make me bad, no a scumbag boyfriend maybe but it also means I am human. I believe about 50% of everything I hear because everyone tells the story in the light that best suits them. Everyone has a psycho ex boyfriend/girlfriend that probably isn't really psycho but we tell the story that they are. Like it or not no matter what job you do, you are still human. The mere fact that you have told a single lie makes you a liar and susceptable and most likely to lie again. This "my shit don't stink" doesn't fly with me

In Afghanistan villages I never once met a villager who was nice enough to wear a name tag proclaiming him to be a Taliban or Al Qeada, in fact I remember village eldars swearing up and down no Taliban were in their village. Strange thing happened at night though, my peaceful evening would be disrupted by incoming AK and RPG fire. And this happened quite a lot.

No people don't lie and the cocaine found on Lindsey Lohan when she was booked wasn't hers, she was just holding it for someone.
Last edited by PC Hopeful on Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:50 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Vancouver police shoot man

Postby Mark S » Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:32 pm

Lets just say that all's fair in love and war, which leaves us with a comparison between Lindsay Lohan vs. the police. I'd expect the former to lie and the latter to not.
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