Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.
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BadBoy
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Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby BadBoy » Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:40 am

(Sorry if this has been discussed before but I cant seem to find a previous thread on the topic)

I was just reading on Officer.com how some officers have had to provide emergency aid/protection tot he public while off-duty (shootings, robbery etc.) there has also been a few rare occasions when off-duty officers were targeted specifically and required the use of their off-duty weapons.

Someone in the forum brought up a good point when talking about Canada not allowing off-duty LEO to carry weapons. Mostly the irony in the fact we're sworn to protect and maintain the peace 24/7, but when off-duty we arent trusted/allowed to carry a weapon.

Does anyone know why this is, or if it has ever been discussed as a possibility in the future?
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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby HwyBear » Thu Aug 09, 2007 7:47 am

OR even that we can carry phohibited weapons while at work, and yet go OFD and we can't even buy/possess a .22 cal rifle unless we have a PAL :ponder:
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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Z# » Thu Aug 09, 2007 9:35 am

Bwaaa? I held off getting my PAL because I was under the impression that firearms training in the academy / college / etc. included getting a PAL. I'm aware of the laws regarding police officers carrying firearms. It would just make sense though that since police basic firearms training is the CRFSC (I believe...) plus "qualifying" on the weapon it's self, that officers would get a PAL as a result of said training. Maybe it's different here. I'll look into that today.

In any case, I don't think incidents have happened frequently enough for the various governments to even begin to look at the possibility of officers carrying off-duty.

Maybe my mind would change barring some crazy incident, but you wouldn't catch me carrying off duty even if I could.
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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Jim Street » Thu Aug 09, 2007 10:38 am

I say it should be allowed. Like you mentioned previously we are expected to be "on-duty" 24-7........technically. There have been many off duty incidents involving members and a firearm adds to their safety. Of course this is IMHO. You will probably not find anyone more right wing than me.........I am of the opinion that guns in the hands of the right people are of no danger to anyone.

Why are we expected to only carry when at work and then we are technically neglecting duty if we dont do something "off duty"?

And, Z#, PAL's are not the same thing when it affects PO's......PO's are exempt under the firearms act only in the execution of their duties can they carry. Qualifying within a service does not give them a PAL. And storage requirements are still the same, we are not exempt from those.
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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Punisher-One » Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:20 am

I would support LEO's carrying off duty. Why the hell not?
Unfortunatly we all have to realize that we live in a left-wing society and most Canadians are very Liberal-minded when it comes to crim/punishment/enforcement.

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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Canadian Blue » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:06 pm

Hasn't this been beaten to death already.

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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Z# » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:32 pm

Canadian Blue wrote:Hasn't this been beaten to death already.


Somewhere in here, probably. But, newer users start new discussions with new (ok, maybe not so new...) ideas.

And thanks Jim Street. I know PO's are exempt, but thought a PAL course might be included in the firearms training component. Guess I'll go register for a course.

Vince echoed my exact feelings pretty much. With the "liberal minded" society these days, I'd feel pretty uneasy about having to pull a gun while "off duty", and that's why I wouldn't. In the end, if the situation REALLY warranted the use of a firearm, what's a bit of legal headaches if it saved someones life?

I don't see why it technically shouldn't be allowed though. Should the justice system ever shape up, I'd carry if I was allowed.
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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby MB_RCMP » Thu Aug 09, 2007 12:59 pm

Z# wrote:Maybe my mind would change barring some crazy incident, but you wouldn't catch me carrying off duty even if I could.



Z# wrote: I don't see why it technically shouldn't be allowed though. Should the justice system ever shape up, I'd carry if I was allowed.


:ponder:
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Postby Burick » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:30 pm

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Last edited by Burick on Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Z# » Thu Aug 09, 2007 1:48 pm

Winterpegger wrote:
MB_RCMP wrote:
Z# wrote:Maybe my mind would change barring some crazy incident, but you wouldn't catch me carrying off duty even if I could.



Z# wrote: I don't see why it technically shouldn't be allowed though. Should the justice system ever shape up, I'd carry if I was allowed.


:ponder:

He's had an epiphany! :alright:


Epiphany, not so much. More, uh, two takes on the matter. My only reason for not wanting to carry would be the legal ramifications of pulling a gun on someone off duty the way the legal system is these days. I know for sure there'd be some kind of BS raised about, "He didn't have the right to...blah, blah, blah." "He violated my...blah, blah, blah." "He shouldn't have... blah, blah." Etc. And a justice would actually substantiate those claims, waste my time, my money, and maybe my job. That's my own pinion though. Would I feel differently if I got caught in a situation where I needed a weapon and didn't have it? Maybe.

In a more productive and logical Canada where people didn't jump on the cop hater train and "the system" made actual allowances for police to fulfill their duties both in uniform and out, no doubt I'd carry.

:dubious:
Last edited by Z# on Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Mark S » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:11 pm

OPPAux wrote:he doesn't like to take it into church


http://hobbes.ncsa.uiuc.edu/onsheepwolv ... pdogs.html

Give him that link, particularly the part about carrying in church.

And back to the original discussion, the above church example provides good reason to carry off-duty. It doesn't mean you have to run around while off-duty chasing shoplifters and the like, but when you really really need it, its there.

The real question though, is would you really want to carry 24/7? I think my life would be quite different if I did. No going into bars, always wearing baggy clothes, and the feeling of always being on-duty even more than normal.
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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Z# » Thu Aug 09, 2007 2:25 pm

To each their own I guess. I'm sure that would suit some people just fine. Unless you were required to carry 24/7 :ponder: You could simply go home or to the station, lock 'er up, put on your cowboy clothes and hit the local watering hole.
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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Stinger » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:38 pm

I wouldn't want to carry my chunk on me 24/7.

One less thing to worry about.

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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Dave Brown » Thu Aug 09, 2007 4:44 pm

Here is the reasons why this HAS been beaten to death in other posts:

#1 - Few officers would want to be out on the streets in the middle of a situation, with a gun but without their SBA, their intermediate force weapons, their backup or their communications. If something serious happens, off-duty officers should fulfill the role of a skilled observer. The number one rule of law enforcement is to make it home alive at the end of every shift, and I guess that includes making it to the station alive to START your next shift.

#2 - Canadian law provides for situations where police officers CAN carry "off-duty" because in many cases, they are never "off" duty. The argument then becomes moot; it IS possible for officers in Canada to do so. I won't go into detail about how they do this and when they might want to - suffice it to say Canadian law gives police the latitude to protect themselves and protect others when and where necessary.

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Re: Thoughts on Off-Duty Firearms

Postby Z# » Thu Aug 09, 2007 5:11 pm

Interesting. Thanks Dave.
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