Store Security releasing offenders

General Law Enforcement discussion which does not fit into other channels. Post your thoughts and feelings about anything you want (LE related), or just vent those fumes about whatever is on your chest.

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Boxer Dogs
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Store Security releasing offenders

Postby Boxer Dogs » Mon Nov 26, 2018 9:48 pm

My opinions are my own and do not reflect my agency.

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IndictableChaser
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby IndictableChaser » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:31 pm

Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

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John014
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby John014 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:52 am

Looks good to me.
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devilwoman
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby devilwoman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:30 am

I work in 52 and can tell you the amount of Theft Under calls we get are insane. We have one LPO who owns his own company and use some his SGs to watch people he's arrested while he goes out and arrests more. For amounts as minimal as $3. I'm not kidding. One day he had 4 people arrested and each was under $10. The best is when he arrested a female for a toothbrush she forgot she had hung on her purse as her hands were full and paid for $50 worth of product. She sat in cuffs for 4 hours. :banghead:

I know, you'll say that it's a crime. It is. Absolutely. But you have to factor in, even though I'm pretty good at doing the case work in 45 minutes, that's still almost 4 hours off the road for one car. Keep in mind, were lucky if we have 4 cars on the road most days.

Even if I kick them loose, I still have to do a record of arrest (multiple text pages) and scan in notes and LPO reports. It takes time. Reports will still be done to show they were arrested, but not by front line.

I'm far from being easy on people, but there's a huge issue with having someone sit in cuffs up to 8 hours (which has happened). It's not right. We have far too little staff and too many calls pending to go to these.
"Don't let someone get comfortable disrespecting you."

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CPO12136
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby CPO12136 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:21 pm

Quite a while ago when I was an LPO, Edmonton Police had an Alternative Measures program that LPO's could take.

Basically, if the person we arrested was willing to admit to the theft, ID wasn't an issue, and sign the paperwork we would release the subject and provide all of our documents to the nearest police station as soon as possible.

I am not sure if it is still in place as I have been out of that game for quite a while.

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IndictableChaser
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby IndictableChaser » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:04 pm

devilwoman wrote:I work in 52 and can tell you the amount of Theft Under calls we get are insane. We have one LPO who owns his own company and use some his SGs to watch people he's arrested while he goes out and arrests more. For amounts as minimal as $3. I'm not kidding. One day he had 4 people arrested and each was under $10. The best is when he arrested a female for a toothbrush she forgot she had hung on her purse as her hands were full and paid for $50 worth of product. She sat in cuffs for 4 hours. :banghead:

I know, you'll say that it's a crime. It is. Absolutely. But you have to factor in, even though I'm pretty good at doing the case work in 45 minutes, that's still almost 4 hours off the road for one car. Keep in mind, were lucky if we have 4 cars on the road most days.

Even if I kick them loose, I still have to do a record of arrest (multiple text pages) and scan in notes and LPO reports. It takes time. Reports will still be done to show they were arrested, but not by front line.

I'm far from being easy on people, but there's a huge issue with having someone sit in cuffs up to 8 hours (which has happened). It's not right. We have far too little staff and too many calls pending to go to these.
:dropjaw: I thought you guys had civies to do all that backend stuff...
Ever listen to k billy's super sounds of the 70s?

"...if every time, Snot Boogie stole the money, why’d you let him play?
... Got to. It’s America, man."

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Boxer Dogs
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby Boxer Dogs » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:03 pm

devilwoman wrote:I work in 52 and can tell you the amount of Theft Under calls we get are insane. We have one LPO who owns his own company and use some his SGs to watch people he's arrested while he goes out and arrests more. For amounts as minimal as $3. I'm not kidding. One day he had 4 people arrested and each was under $10. The best is when he arrested a female for a toothbrush she forgot she had hung on her purse as her hands were full and paid for $50 worth of product. She sat in cuffs for 4 hours. :banghead:

I know, you'll say that it's a crime. It is. Absolutely. But you have to factor in, even though I'm pretty good at doing the case work in 45 minutes, that's still almost 4 hours off the road for one car. Keep in mind, were lucky if we have 4 cars on the road most days.

Even if I kick them loose, I still have to do a record of arrest (multiple text pages) and scan in notes and LPO reports. It takes time. Reports will still be done to show they were arrested, but not by front line.

I'm far from being easy on people, but there's a huge issue with having someone sit in cuffs up to 8 hours (which has happened). It's not right. We have far too little staff and too many calls pending to go to these.
I think the program is a good idea, especially if your call volume is busy. He arrested 4 people for stuff under $10? How about getting the stuff back and telling them to take a hike? I’ve never done LPO, but making an arrest for $3.00 is like me arresting someone for not paying their bus fare. I’ll either issue them a ticket or tell them to walk. I think they used to have something similar in Vancouver, but I believe the scrapped the program.
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby devilwoman » Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:28 pm

I think the program is a good idea, especially if your call volume is busy. He arrested 4 people for stuff under $10? How about getting the stuff back and telling them to take a hike? I
I've told him that. Get CCTV footage, post their pics for his staff and next time bring them in. He refuses because it's his business and he wants to show stats to sell his business. Then he'll complain he waits for hours. Sorry, but a hotshot stabbing, person with gun, domestic assault, sex assault, assault in progress, threaten suicide, violent behaviour, etc take precedence.

As for civvies.....we do all our Form 9s and arrest/incident reports.
"Don't let someone get comfortable disrespecting you."

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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby Madeline236 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:11 pm

I don't know the process but do know its already pretty much done that way in in a lot of places, more or less. If fact I know stores that don't even bother to pass details on to police if they get their product back in one piece. Say its not worth their employees time to sit and wait for police.
Last edited by Madeline236 on Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Stump
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby Stump » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:15 pm

If I recall correctly in Nanaimo, the LPO would call in and give the particulars. We would run the offender through the data bases (CPIC & PRIME), and tell the LPO we either had interest, ie: multiple shoplifting offences or outstanding warrants, or we had no interest (no previous history). If we had interest, we would create a file, and dispatch the next available member. If we had no interest, we would create a file, give the file number to the LPO, and then assign the file to the "detachment constable" for any follow up required.

Seemed to work for the detachment, and freed up members to be available for high priority calls.

Stay safe !!

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Slovak4188
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby Slovak4188 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:10 am

devilwoman wrote:I work in 52 and can tell you the amount of Theft Under calls we get are insane. We have one LPO who owns his own company and use some his SGs to watch people he's arrested while he goes out and arrests more. For amounts as minimal as $3. I'm not kidding. One day he had 4 people arrested and each was under $10. The best is when he arrested a female for a toothbrush she forgot she had hung on her purse as her hands were full and paid for $50 worth of product. She sat in cuffs for 4 hours. :banghead:

I know, you'll say that it's a crime. It is. Absolutely. But you have to factor in, even though I'm pretty good at doing the case work in 45 minutes, that's still almost 4 hours off the road for one car. Keep in mind, were lucky if we have 4 cars on the road most days.

Even if I kick them loose, I still have to do a record of arrest (multiple text pages) and scan in notes and LPO reports. It takes time. Reports will still be done to show they were arrested, but not by front line.

I'm far from being easy on people, but there's a huge issue with having someone sit in cuffs up to 8 hours (which has happened). It's not right. We have far too little staff and too many calls pending to go to these.
I empathize with this.

I can't count the amount of times Shopthefts will sit for hours and hours on end while hot calls are on the go.

I try and inform the LPO's every time I visit about their power to do their own release (especially when the total amount stolen, which is always recovered, is petty). I have a weird feeling they don't want to do it because it means more work on their end lol, but whatever.
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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby OCCOP » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:01 pm

I don't disagree with the operational challenges police face in these situations, but I believe police services instituting this themselves have always been out of bounds. For this to be truly legal, there needs to be another amendment to the Criminal Code to allow for release by other than a P.O. in these situations.

The primary problem comes with two things; (1) removing the police takes away a independent review of the legality of the arrest made by a citizen and (2) identity of a suspect is never guaranteed when you are dealing with a civilian LPO; the suspect could easily be lying to avoid a warrant or be personating another person.

There is a reason police have to be involved in arrests by citizens; private entities are under NO obligation to respect a person's Charter Rights. Involvement by police is meant to ensure that the Charter Rights of arrested suspects are ensured.

I've worked in the private industry and it does not have the same checks and balances as LE. There are also many shady operators still running around. Allowing this gives these agencies too much ability to cover up unlawful arrests and inappropriate behaviour.

While these programs have been in place for many years. I've been just waiting for someone to come out and say they were unlawfully arrested/assaulted and the police allowed it to happen...

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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby SHAMROCK » Sun Dec 23, 2018 4:04 am

Having done mall security in Brampton many years ago I saw the Peel program first hand. I thought it was a great idea. The LPO's that were in some of the stores were good...if it was a bs amount then they would just follow the procedure and suspect is released...free up police resources :thumbsup:

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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby Punisher-One » Wed Dec 26, 2018 11:17 am

Boxer Dogs wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 4:03 pm
I think the program is a good idea, especially if your call volume is busy. He arrested 4 people for stuff under $10? How about getting the stuff back and telling them to take a hike? I’ve never done LPO, but making an arrest for $3.00 is like me arresting someone for not paying their bus fare. I’ll either issue them a ticket or tell them to walk. I think they used to have something similar in Vancouver, but I believe the scrapped the program.
Unfortunately an LPO can not stop someone and ask for the stuff back legally. Once an LPO prohibits a person's free movement by stopping that person that is legally considered arrest.

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Re: Store Security releasing offenders

Postby badbrad » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:14 pm

They have to come up with some plan. In my major city stores call the police for theft from their stores and the police never show up. Yet these stores pay thousands and thousands of dollars in taxes. The police do not respond to theft from private property or vehicles. Breaking and entereing into residences and small businesses don't even get a police response let alone investigation. In California they have propsition 49 which decriminalized all minor theft offences and other crimes. Criminals walk in and out of businesses filling their pockets. Paying customers make up the difference or the stores go out of business.


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